Re: stem cells - Agreement between Dr. Fink and Me

[Leonard W Casavant <lcasavant@xxxxxxxxxx>]

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----- Original Message -----
From: Charles T. Meyer, M.D. <cmeyer2@xxxxxxxx>
To: <PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: stem cells - Agreement between Dr. Fink and Me


> Thanks Bill
>
>   Your thoughtful contributions helped a great deal
>
> Charlie
> At 02:21 PM 10/8/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >Charles and Bob....
> >
> >CONGRATULATIONS ! !
> >
> >I think you two have drafted a VERY thoughtful and useful document.  I am
> >saving it as a key document in my stem cell bioethics folder.  You should
> >publish this list on other lists and links.
> >
> > From broken eggs come omelets!
> >
> >Bill    <(©¿©)>
> >
> >**************************************8
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Charles T. Meyer, M.D. []
> >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 2:05 PM
> >To: PARKINSN@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: Fwd: stem cells - Agreement between Dr. Fink and Me
> >
> >
> > >
> > >  The following is a copy of messages  exchange by Bob Fink and
> > > myself.  Did anybody think this could happen?  Maybe there will be
peace
> > > in the Middle East
> > >and the Messiah will come either the 1st or 2nd time depending on your
> > >viiewpoint-  but let us stay away from religion!?!
> >
> >
> >
> > >  > Let's try and wrap this up and summarize where we agree. I think
this
> > > > has been one of the best debates I have participated on the issue of
> > > > an abortion related subject and I think the people on the list
enjoyed
> > > > it also.I don't think you should have any problem with 1to4 or 7 5+6
> > > > probably will require some rewriting and I ask you to write what you
> > > > think works that you think I might agree to,
> > > >
> > > > The areas of agreement are:
> > > > 1. Fetal stem cell research has significant promise and should under
> > > > close supervision continue.
> > > >
> > > > 2.  Since fetal stem cells are derived from the products of IVF (in
> > > > virtro fertilization) which has as its primary goal the initiation
of
> > > > life for couples who otherwise would not be able to conceive and the
> > > > embryos that are utilized for stem cell research are the byproduct
of
> > > > that process which cannot result in a live birth the use of Stem
cells
> > > > in research is moral and reasonable.
> > > >
> > > > 3.  While the NIH guidelines appear appropriate it is crucial that
> > > > they be followed closely because of the fact that some Americans
> > > > believe that  human life begins at conception, feel that the use of
> > > > embryos  and pre embryos in research cheapens life and do not have
> > > > faith in the NIH  monitoring at present.
> > > >
> > > > 4. Based on our present state of the (scientific) art, we cannot
prove
> > > > that an embryo of younger than 8 weeks has brain activity.  Relying
on
> > > > the current (legal) interpretation of "brain death" as a guide, such
> > > > an embryo would not be considered a human being.  This could change
> > > > with either better measurement or different interpretation of the
> > > > meaning of the EEG recording.
> > > >
> > > > 5. The exact moment of when human life starts is controversial and
> > > > subject to interpretation as filtered through each individual's
> > > > experience philosophy and religion.  Science has no answer.  In
early
> > > > stages of development some people believe that  the loss of a
> > > > pregnancy through spontaneous means or abortion results a death (or
a
> > > > murder) while others believe it is only the loss of potential life.
> > > > In cases where it is a matter of faith or interpretation and there
are
> > > > no overwhelming scientific data to proceed on, the mother, and
father
> > > > in concert with their physician and clergy (if desired) are the only
> > > > people who can make the choice of what is right for them.  They
should
> > > > not be coerced in any direction
> > > >
> > > > 6.   The rights of the mother vs. the rights of the baby are
> > > > controversial and beyond the scope of this summary.  Court
decisions,
> > > > including constitutional interpretations, the political process and
> > > > precedent need to be our guides here.
> > > >
> > > > 7.  Violence and is not a way to resolve this matter.  This is the
> > > > ultimate cheapener of life.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >**********************************************
> > > > >Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C.
> > > > >2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
> > > > >Berkeley, California  94704-2636
> > > > >Telephone:  510-849-2555   FAX:  510-849-2557
> > > > >WWW:  
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"Ex Tristitia Virtus"
> > > > >
> > > > >*********************************************
> > > >
> > > > Charles T. Meyer, M.D.
> > > > Middleton, WI
> > > > PD DX  12 years (at age 44)
> > > > Age 56
> > >
> > >Charlie,
> > >
> > >You get an A+ from me.  I have no problem accepting *all 7* of your
> > >summary statements.  My only caveat is in number 5, where I feel very
> > >strongly that the *father* needs to be included in the considerations
> > >concerning abortion and other procedures which may involve the
> > >termination of life.  I would insert a *comma* after "to proceed on",
to
> > >make this clearer.
> > >
> > >You may post our agreement to the List if you wish.  It has been a
> > >stimulating exercise debating with you and most of the others on this
> > >issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >Best,
> > >
> > >Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >**********************************************
> > >Robert A. Fink, M. D., F.A.C.S., P. C.
> > >2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
> > >Berkeley, California  94704-2636
> > >Telephone:  510-849-2555   FAX:  510-849-2557
> > >WWW:  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"Ex Tristitia Virtus"
> > >
> > >*********************************************
> >
> >Charles T. Meyer, M.D.
> >Middleton, WI
> >PD DX  12 years (at age 44)
> >Age 56
>
> Charles T. Meyer, M.D.
> Middleton, WI
> PD DX  12 years (at age 44)
> Age 56
>